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Electric Judgement is the term that discribes the jedi version of the force lightining. Im not going to post the technique or anything like that but i want to see peoples opinons on this technique. Many jedi have used this technique (in fiction) and had no negitive side effects on their person. The technique force lighting isnt taught here because its concidered to be dark sided, but there are two sides to every coin this has a light side. The force lighting can be a weapon for justice. Some may argue that jedi never attack but only defend but couldnt this technique be used as a defense against an oppenent, like any other martial art move or sword technique?

I belive if a person uses this skill responsibly and in a proper state of mind it should be able to be utilized by jedi. What do yall think?

(Im not making trouble or trying to get this technique taught here im just curious on peoples opinions)

I think that most force powers are neither good nor bad, it's how you use them that matters. I think that in certain circumstances it would be beneficial to know and use force lightning. But then again, you can't really base which force powers are good or bad based on the movies, like in the movies the Jedi use Jedi mind trick, but it is an invasion of privacy, so it really depends on the situation that the user is in and the intentions of the user.

I disagree with the concept that the Jedi should never attack and should only defend - as sometimes taken by Jedi in the strictest of senses. I do believe that sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I would never allow an opponent the opportunity to get in the first shot, if I can help it because from that point I'd always be fighting from a disadvantageous position and to win the fight, one must gain the upper hand. A fight is all about winning or else there is no point to fighting (if the outcome doesn't matter).

But at the same time; warfare is never a good thing. Combat as combat and it means that someone is going to get hurt. I would never consider combat to be a thing of the 'lightside' - but rather it is a necessary evil. Simply put; there are times when we have no choice but to enter into combat and when that happens we should do everything that we can to survive and get out alive. If that means zapping them with bolts of lightening - so be it. Combat isn't a pretty thing and anyone who romanticizes it certainly has never been engaged in the reality of a life and death struggle and is completely naive to its horrors.

In response to Astrauk and many other Jedi's claims that it is about the intention of the user -- that's a bit naive too. As Vergere pointed out to Jacen Solo. If a person sees a butterfly struggling to get out of its cocoon and decides to help it along by cutting it free the results are that the butterfly will be stunted and die soon. Will it be less dead or less crippled because of the good intentions of the person? You have to take responsibility for the end result no matter your intentions. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils and do a 'bad' thing -- and you'll have to live with the concequences. We have to get past the whole childish concept of saying 'I didn't mean to' and be people of character who will do our best to be mindful of the concequences and take responsibility for the outcome.

I think it is a good idea to know Force lightning. It could be used, for instance, to help herd cattle or goats or sheep. And also, it could be used for defense.

But can it be controlled? What if your lightning arced off of your opponent on to an innocent bystander? Lightning should be used, but only by the most powerful Jedi Masters. The effects of such a technique could be devastating.

That is something for me to think about.. good point, hadn't even considered that

As I recall, the main issue with Force lightning was that it drew power specifically from the dark side.

Another is that there seems to be no graded usage of it. A slow charge to say, recharge a lightsaber or blaster, or a mild charge to immobilize an opponent without killing them or causing them serious pain. Or a large controled charge to say, jump start the land speeder.

Certainly, I could be wrong on that, but I do not recall any uses that were not all or nothing with regards to force lightning.

TIogar Suil

Well in responce to what Michael said this isnt like the movies what we release when using the force lighting, isnt really lightning but the force with the characteristics of lightning. If one has the control to make "lightning" they will have little trouble controling where it goes. Also the effects arent that devestating the strongest effect ive seen that comes from this technique is a brief immobalization, this technique doesnt kill or torture like the movies.

In responce to what Tiogar-Suil said:

The "dark side" of the force is all about intent this technique could only be concidered Dark sided if you used it to harm another living creature, using this technique will not turn you evil or make you a sith. If you go to the "Dark side" it is because of your own free will. If you want to stop walking the path of the darkside then stop. Its not as powerful as the movies and books protray it to be

My thanks for the response, Kensu. I do appreciate!

While the movie and book portrayal of the dark side may be more dramatic, I have yet to see or hear of reports of Force lightning exhibited outside of the movies or books, so I was going on those for purposes of qualifying Force lightning in discussion.

I do agree with you in principle regarding intent, but if Force lightning is an all or nothing ability, then it would need to be used with great care and very judiciously.

The books also have contradictory information about the dark side. Some portray it as entirely intent as you describe. The movies and other books portray it as a specific, malevolent power that corrupts if it is drawn upon. Much of this I think is a matter of the perspective of many different authors over a thirty two year period since the first movie was released.

Also, one's foundational beliefs (atheist, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Taoist, Wiccan, or what have you) will affect how one perceives the nature of the dark side.

One person may argue that it is indeed a personal entity that seeks to undermine and destroy that which is good and just.

Another may argue that it is a literal dark side of a single force (as opposed to two personal beings, one good and one evil), and that that side is malevolent and corrupting and must be avoided.

Another may argue that the force is neither good nor evil, light nor dark, and that it is the intent of the individual that makes it one or the other.

It could be argued that only one view could be correct (though I am not arguing for promoting one over the others), though the end result is pretty much the same: do not use the Force to hurt others. The main difference between the three is the degree to which the Force can be used and the manner in which it can be applied.

Tiogar Suil

This post has been edited by Tiogar-Suil on November 02, 2009 10:48 am

Since you've never heard of Force Lightning being used outside of Star Wars, I will say that I think it is often refered to as Electrokenesis.

Yeah electrokinesis is a better term then force lightning, doesnt sound as cool tho lol

I had not thought of that. Thank you.

Now are there credible reports of electrokinesis? Credible meaning a report of a specific person who could be identified and spoken to?

There a both credible reports and non-credible reports of ESP, levitation, energy and faith healing and precognition.

An example of a credible report would be George Dilman. He claims and his students claim that he can perform and teach others to perform no touch knock out using chi. He was a credible person who National Geographic was able to speak to and arrange a demonstration with. The demo did not go well for Mister Dillman and he was unable to reproduce the results on a willing volunteer who was not also a student.

But he was an actual person.

I also hear anectodal reports. These are not credible. "I once knew a man named John. Never knew his last name, but he levited the back of my car so that I could change my tire. Haven't seen him in fifty years."

The anecdotal, non-credible, and of course, hoaxes, do more to bias people against any sort of supernatural phenomenon. It also makes looking into such phenomenon much more challenging.

I will admit that when people make claims of things extraordinary, I am often skeptical at first because of the hoaxes and frauds. On the other hand, I believe that supernatural energy (i.e. the Force, Chi, Ki, etc.) exists and can be harnessed. Rather an odd juxtaposition, I admit.

Lastly, I appreciate you all humoring me in my asking questions.

Tiogar Suil

Contrary to that; Dillman has no credibility in the Martial Arts community and is more commonly thought of as a fraud. 'No touch knock-outs' have been tested time and time again and generally only works on one of his students - who've been conditioned to believe in them. As one mentalist proved; it's merely a matter of psychology - not truly chi in action.

Now, I'm just providing an alternate perspective on this issue. For every video or report that you find on the web saying that no touch knockouts work - or any supernatrual power for that matter - you'll find several that test them and prove that they do not work.

I actually do believe in the Supernatural because I have plenty of experiences that I can't explain. But due to the fact that none of these powers that people claim to have are ever able to be performed on a constant and consistent basis; I'd much rather see Jedi train in skills that they can actually use and count on to help people. Indeed, attempting these powers often stunt people's spiritual growth because they only focus on meditation for the purpose of gathering the force and not for the introspection and self analysis that leads to growth.

However, it is interesting to discuss things from a philosophical point of view.

INTENT:

Oft taught by 'force users,' The concept of Intent is pure childishness. For example; if an Aikido-ka responded to someone stabbing him by performing a wrist-lock and flipping the individual on his back. The intent was to use be gentle in the face of violence and to merely put the guy on his back. However, the reality is that the person may not know how to properly fall and thus hit their head against the ground hard -- killing them. Does the fact that the outcome is different from the intended outcome make the person any less dead and is that death thus a 'good' thing?

No matter what, you'll have to live with the concequences of the actual outcome no matter whether your intentions were good. It is the child that runs with muddy shoes across a clean floor and responds 'I didn't mean to' as if it will make things all better. An adult chooses to clean up the floor because he took responsibility for the outcome, no matter the intent.

How about if someone decides that they are going to kidnap you and they manage to take you to some place secluded. You eventually see an opportunity to fight and know that no matter what it's a fight until either you or he is unable to continue. Does it become evil because you get angry and your intention matches the necessary outcome -- the destruction of the other party? Your righteous indignation can be the added strength and will power that you need to overcome. -- This even though the conventional 'Jedi' wisdom is that we should only think about defense?

Especially when it comes to force lightening. The outcome is that the other person is gonna get shocked and burned.The result is the same no matter the intent - why does it matter if you're attacking or defending yourself?

I think it is more than possible to use it as a force for good. However, contemplating its use as a weapon, even for defence suggests to me that you simply want its power.

I outstretch my hand to all who are reading this. Lets go on a short walk. Afterwards if you wish to return to your boxes you may.

Consider the elements of fire, water, earth and air.

With fire you can burn people.
With water you can drown your enemies.
With earth you can bury them alive.
The wind can throw them to their death.

Now. Reflect on this. Each element has been presented to you as a weapon. But you know that this is not the whole story. If it weren't, would Jedi be forbidden from learning control of them?

Turn around now, it is time to see a far brighter angle.

Fire gives us heat and light.
Water cleanses and works with us.
Earth supports us; it provides food and shelter.
Air keeps us alive. And by using it we keep other life forms alive.

Around 90% of you, I should imagine will have noticed that all I have done is state the obvious. I have also created 2 distinct sections. The first you could call the dark side, but I wish to be different and call the first Death and the second Life. That way it will stick. By considering learning an element just to use it as a weapon, which side is it on? Life because it can save someone's life? Or Death because it will cause pain or death to whomever it is used on? I think, Death. When you engage in a fight someone is going to get hurt and you know this far too well as you practice with the element.

Now in a minute you may return to your box, but first let's apply what we have seen to lightning.

It can be a very powerful weapon. It can make someone suffer like they are being burnt, drowned, buried alive or thrown around. If you wanted a powerful weapon you could buy a gun (please no debates on guns, it was an example), there wouldn't be much difference. As when your adrenalin kicks in, it is very unlikely that you would be able to control yourself, in fact I would say it was very likely that you would be unable to hold back at all. They would die, or for a better description; they would fry. Looking towards Death isn't too nice is it?

Want to turn your back on this side?

Welcome back to Life. Quite literally. Electricity can restart, your heart. I am going to leave you soon, as you can probably see. Think of all of the good things you can do with this ability. As you think about it, what you will come to notice is that far less power is often needed to do the good things, than the bad. For example you could give a healing session through using very tiny amounts of electricity. "Healing with electricity?" Oh yes, something to Google search on a wet weekend.

Time for me to make my leave, it was a pleasure talking to you. Decision time, going back in your box or not? I am sure some at least will think "I was never in a box to begin with". Its your Life, your choice.

This post has been edited by Ghost101 on October 21, 2009 03:59 pm

Credibility on the part of Dilman was not what I meant; only that the report linked to an actual person who had made the claim.

There was probably a better word than credible for this but it did not come to me at the time.

Non-anecdotal perhaps?

You said more about Mister Dilman than I was willing to, though I will simply say that I do not disagree with you.

Tiogar Suil